Host Tim Abbott talks with Bonnie Ayars, Brian Kelly, and Madison Dyment on judging

In this episode of DairyVoice, host Tim Abbott of Showbox Sires sits down with Bonnie Ayars, Brian Kelly, and Madison Dyment to discuss judging. In this episode of The Evolution of the Great Cow, They talk about the importance of dairy cattle judging and the importance for young people to develop skills in communications and public speaking, emphasizing that the relationships developed in judging lasts the rest of a person’s career. A focus on celebrating a youth’s individual success and learning how to work as a team will help them to do better in their lives. Our dairy industry is shrinking and we need more young people to become leaders.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

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SPEAKER_06 1:36

Welcome to the latest edition of the podcast series sponsored by Showbox Sires on dairy business and the dairy voice. I'm Tim Abbott, the host, and each series we try to identify different topics in the industry that are pertinent to three different uh aspects that we talk about all the time in our business. We talk about the cow and her genetics, we talk about the management and the care of our cows, and we talk about the people behind our cows. And today, one of my favorite planning sessions to get ready for this podcast because it's a topic near and dear to my heart, we're going to talk with the three esteemed judges and coaches, students of the judging contest at World Dairy Expo or any judging contest anywhere in the country, because dairy cattle judging contests are where many of us got our start. And I think as you listen to this podcast, it will either spark memories of how you get to where you were in your career, or potentially you can share this with a young person that will give them some encouragement to try to try to make their career more exciting through it. I will say, as a young kid from Vermont, 4-H and intercollegiate dairy cattle judging contest probably changed my life more than anything I've done. Not because I was extremely successful with it, like some of you, but because I get to see the world. So, you know, I'm I'm excited for this podcast because I think it's I think there's still so much opportunity in this field.

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SPEAKER_06 4:31

So enough of that. I want to introduce our guests. Three great friends and colleagues that we're going to interview today. I think we're going to do this by age, youngest to oldest. And so I'm going to start with Bonnie Ayers from Ohio. Bonnie and her husband John have been great friends and mentors of Sharon and I for years. We've spent a lot of time with John and Bonnie, and we certainly consider them mentors and dear friends of ours. And this was kind of Bonnie's idea. So, Bonnie, welcome to the podcast. We'll let you tell a little more about yourself in a second, but welcome. Secondly, I'm I'm gonna switch around. We're not doing age. This we're gonna go with Madison Diamond, a young lady that I met, I don't know, five years ago, Madison. I was sitting behind a desk at a judging contest in Wisconsin, and this gal came in and gave the best set of reasons I'd ever heard in my life. And I'm like, where did this kid come from? And then she went on to win the contest. And so I followed your career since, and you're doing great things. So welcome, Madison. We're thrilled to have you. No, thank you so much. Pleasure to be here. And last but not least, and I think Brian, you knew you were going to be last no matter how we did this. But uh Brian Telroy is a very well-known fixture in our industry. He has been on several different facets of our industry, is very, very well known and considered one of the better cow people in in our business. Brian's had several different career paths, and I think he'll tell us a little about them. But Brian, welcome to you as well. Oh, thanks, Tim. Pleasure to be here. So why don't we start with Brian, since since you're up, tell us a little about Brian Calroy and what you're doing today, what you've done, and a little your connection to the judging world.

SPEAKER_07 6:19

So what I'm doing today is I'm currently working at Zoetis as a dairy production specialist. But since 2010, so the last 17 years, I've had a per diem role at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where I've coached the dairy judging team. And I can't believe when this was sent out and they asked, you know, tell us about your start and to think that it's been 17 years already since first started coaching the team, it time flies and it goes fast. But before that, I worked at Select Sigars. And then really where I got my start, I'd say, in the judging world and the path was being a classifier at the Holsting Association for eight years. That was an incredible opportunity to travel across the country, meet the best people, I think, in the in the industry, and see a bunch of great cows and and just learn about learn about cows from people like Cy Letter, you know, a great fixture in our industry, was ran the classification at the Holsting Association and recently retired and wish him the best. But it was just a great opportunity. I've always kind of had that passion for the Holstein cow and for dairy judging and evaluation. And with that, it's allowed me to judge in you know several countries throughout the world and also across the United States, which has been a great opportunity.

SPEAKER_06 7:31

Your impact at your time at Holstein and certainly Select Sires and now through Zoetis, your impact is being felt. And now, particularly with your Wisconsin connection to coaching that great team, uh, you've got a pretty pretty fun spot, don't you?

SPEAKER_07 7:47

It is. It's a lot of fun. And you know, that's that's what this is all about. You know, when you think about the dairy judge, there's a lot of life lessons with it, but this is fun. You know, dairy judging, dairy shows, dairy kettle evaluation, and you get to you get to meet a lot of great people and see a lot of great cows.

SPEAKER_06 8:02

Well, Madison, I'm anxious to hear more about what you're doing. We we started with a little prelude to this in our earlier part of our discussion, but tell us what Madison's up to today. I I think you're actually you're probably Dr. Madison by now, I should refer to you.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

It's all good. I am just Maddie or Madison here. But yeah, so I I'm currently an assistant professor of agricultural communications. I'm working here at uh New Mexico State University. So I'm coming to y'all live here from uh Las Cruces, New Mexico, which is definitely a long ways from home for me, being originally from Burgessville, Ontario. And so yeah, I have the pleasure of teaching a bunch of students all about agriculture and how we communicate and talk about the various topics within the agricultural natural resources industries. I've maintained all of my dairy connections, however, and so a lot of my work and research is primarily designed to uh benefit the dairy industry broadly. I typically try to take a bit more of a producer focus because, you know, those are my folks. And so a lot of my work is really tailored to trying to come up with some solutions on how to better lift up the dairy industry as much as we can from a communications side. And so that's kind of what I'm doing currently. I've been a professional grad student uh for a long time prior to this. Um, I've had the pleasure of going to the University of Florida, the Ohio State University, and University of Kentucky before that, uh, which is actually where I was able to cross over with one Bonnie Ayres, who is on this call, obviously, uh, during my time. Actually, I guess it started whenever I was at UK at the judging competition, which I'm sure we'll get into a little bit more later. But while I was at Ohio State for my master's degree, I had the absolute pleasure of being able to work really closely with Bonnie. Uh, she very quickly became one of my biggest mentors, particularly in dairy judging. And I'm so blessed to be able to maintain that relationship to this day. But to kind of talk a little bit, I think you wanted us to mention our connections to judging and how all that got started. I hesitate to say that I have a judging career in this company that we have here, because mine is definitely not as illustrious as you folks. But I would say that my experience with uh dairy judging started long before I ever entered any kind of like competition or official capacity. And uh, like a lot of people, it was it really began whenever I was just a kid who was going around to barns with my dad, Jamie Howard. And he and I would just look at cattle all the time and talk about them, evaluate them kind of informally and discuss what we liked or what we didn't like about certain animals, how we would change them. And so that really started in a young age of a real love and passion and appreciation just for dairy cattle. And we like the ones that are nice to look at. And so that really built that in me from a very young age. Whenever I was going through 4-H, I was uh really involved in some of the different 4-H level competitions in Ontario. They started me basically as soon as I could. Um, and so there was there was definitely a lot that went into that. Um, again, working with my dad, I always say that he's my he's my number one coach and my my guy who really taught me everything that I am now blessed to know about dairy cattle. But then I went on eventually, whenever I was at the University of Kentucky, I competed in the uh intercollegiate competition with Tim. You had mentioned that a little bit. And I was just as blindsided, probably as you were, about my uh about my success in that competition. I had former been on the Ontario team back in, I think it was 2015, where Ontario sent a group to represent the province at the World Dairy Expo competition and didn't really do too much whenever I was there at that competition. But then whenever I decided to go back to represent the University of Kentucky, that was I think 2019 at this point. It seems so far away. But uh yeah, I was fortunate enough to have a really great day and have a very good showing at that competition. And I yeah, I I feel incredibly blessed to have had that experience. And again, that's where I'm at Bonnie. And so that set a lot of things in motion for me moving forward. But today I actually um I'm still working with a lot of the youth, uh, talking to them about dairy judging, talking with them just about general confirmation of dairy cattle. Literally, after we record this podcast, I'm going to the uh New Mexico Dairy Camp where I was yesterday, uh, which is basically kind of like a little training boot camp for all of our 4-H'ers who are showing dairy cattle, teaching them all about dairy judging and showmanship. And so I'll be heading back to that afterwards. But it's a real blessing to be able to uh continue to move that forward and to help as much as I can to inspire the the next generation of fantastic judges.

SPEAKER_06 12:46

Well, we we don't want to make you late for that because you have an important, probably a more important job than the rest of us today. But a couple comments, you know. I saw your dad this weekend and I didn't tell him about this podcast, but he would be disappointed if I didn't trash him a little bit. You know, to think that you say that you learned what you know about cows from him, that's that's a mouthful, and I'm gonna say you exceeded your teacher, so he will appreciate that. I'm sure. Not true, but I'm sure he'll appreciate it. That's right. He would he would expect no different. So last but not least, Bonnie, you and I have a lot of similarities. We were Jersey kids, you were the national jersey queen, I wasn't. Uh, we both are married to a person that won the national intercollegiate judging contest, and we're in a when we're in a room with them, that Bonnie and I can hardly breathe because they take up all the air. But Bonnie, tell us about your career and a little about what you've done.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Well, you know, it's kind of interesting because on this podcast we have multi-generations, and I represent the oldest of the generations. I know that. But the thing is that I'm kind of the backdoor guest. I was in 4-H and going to college in the 60s, and my father felt that doing some of that dairy judging maybe wasn't quite appropriate for a young lady traveling with young men. So it wasn't like he didn't say I couldn't, but he didn't send his gracious approval either. So I just found it simple, and being from just a very small, very non-famous Jersey herd, that I spent time around the people who knew and understood it. And because it was Jersey's, I did everything with Jersey and the contest and things like that. And I was real lucky to have it was a reserved winner. It was called the Pictorial Contest. It was not called the All-American at that time. So I was very lucky when I was Queen. I got to meet and make connections with so many people, and knowing that Mr. Korr and Mr. Kavanaugh were some of my great mentors that I was able to be around. I even did a stint selling and advertising for Jersey Journal for a while under Dr. Bear. So lots of fine associations there. I maybe didn't get the experience, but I sure knew that I had a passion for it and and was later to become one of the first women to embrace the shavings at World Dairy Expo. So that was an experience in itself. I'm an educator by nature. I graduated with almost a music degree and an education degree. So I've been a teacher, an educator for 54 years in the classroom. And it hasn't worn out in its thrill yet because every class is different. So I come to this by way that I have a staff appointment on the at the Ohio State University. I am committed to be there. I get to know the kids by teaching in a couple of labs and collaborating. I have my own class, Dairy Cattle Selection and Valuation. And then I work with the 4-H'ers as well and get to know them all by name here in Ohio and watch them grow up now. A couple of generations have done that because I've been with Ohio State 20 years. So that's where I come to this as an educator, as a coach of people, as a passion for dairy judging and dairy cattle. I I guess I could say I married into it. I married into the concept of it. But I mean, that's a real drawing point. And then always wanting to encourage people like Madison, catching her going out the door after winning the contest. And hey, where you would like to go to grad school? It's not just about recruiting the students, it's recruiting the the next level as well, because of the high profile of our ag communication school. So I'm an educator by nature, I'm a teacher, and that's where it puts me as a coach. And there are lots of things that could be told about the story of Bonnie, but but they they have been a long time coming. So experiences are great. And back to what you folks were saying about it's a lot of fun. It's about a lot of great relationships. Man, when you're with those kids, you're in them now for life. That's why I have 2,200 contacts in my phone, I suppose. But I had a phone before most of them were born. So it's a it's a it's been a grand experience. It really taking me out of the high school setting, a state educator as well. This is this has been a great experience, the best job in the world.

SPEAKER_06 17:52

Well, it's great introduction of all three of you, and I think it our listeners you know certainly can tell why we have this panel of of the three of you together to to talk through this. So I'm gonna go, Brian, to you next again. Tell us a little about your process. Like what what is a what is a year in the coaching life of Brian look like? And and what things are you thinking the kids are getting from what you're doing?

SPEAKER_07 18:19

My process might be a little bit different being kind of per diem or part-time at the university. So what we generally do is we start up in the fall, kind of a practice schedule together. And the neat thing about that is being around Madison area in Wisconsin, it's one of those things where it's almost all right, we have a hard time fitting all the herds we really wanted to go to into the weekend scheduled, which is a really a great opportunity we have with so many dairy farms around the area. But generally how we do our process is the sophomores through seniors are the ones that will dairy judge. And how we do it is we usually send the sophomores to the Viroco contest that's usually in the middle of September, and then the juniors will generally go to Louisville in the fall, and then our seniors will go to the All-American at Harrisburg and the intercollegiate contest at Madison, and hopefully uh the Fort Worth contest in in December. So how we work through it is we kind of have a stepping stone. So when they're freshmen, they take the dairy cattle evaluation class, and then we bring the sophomores through seniors together in the fall. We kind of keep coaching them up and work with them. And not always do we judge seniors at Harrisburg and Expo, we sometimes will move juniors up, but traditionally that's been the way that we've done it. The big thing is, you know, just focusing the dairy judging and the reasons together. Reasons are such a powerful impact, and one of the biggest life lessons you'll get from dairy judging, you know, you're always gonna have to tell someone why you're doing something or kind of to defend yourself throughout your your your thought process throughout life. And so we spend a lot of time on the reason side of things in our practice and then try to combine that with the on-pharma dairy judging. Since COVID, we've gone to a lot of Zoom dairy reasons practices during the week. And I think that's been a big advantage to kind of help work with these busy schedules. Probably the biggest challenge, and Bonnie, you can probably relate to this, is these kids are just so busy even when they're in school, trying to get the practice schedule to align for all these kids can be quite challenging at times. And uh you just have to do what you can.

SPEAKER_06 20:26

How big a group would you start with in the fall, Brian, when you start your evaluation classes, et cetera?

SPEAKER_07 20:31

So I'd say depending on the year, you're we're usually somewhere between 12 and 15 students.

SPEAKER_06 20:36

And those those students would come from all different facets of the world? I mean, would most of them be dairy kids, Brian, or would you have a little bit of everything?

SPEAKER_07 20:45

So that's a great question. So throughout the years, we've had a little bit of everything. We had one person who had judged as a 4-H youth just in the junior side, hadn't judged through their senior year, and they decided to go out their senior year to judge. They had some background in their family, but hadn't done it for a while, and they ended up being an all-American in the contest. They're a business major, currently they're working downtown Chicago on the finance side. Uh, this last year we were had the opportunity to get two young students from New Zealand that were on the team. They were here for an exchange program. So they came through and went through the judging practice and they were able to compete at the Baroco contest in September. So, and we've had we currently have a student on the team from New York, so we get them through all, we've had from Pennsylvania all throughout the country as well. But we definitely get all kinds of different backgrounds and sometimes even different different spots in the world.

SPEAKER_06 21:35

The tentacles, the reach of what you all are doing is is significant because you've you've just talked about how many different pieces you touch. Bonnie, for your team, similarities, differences.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Well, I look for potential judges anywhere. Under a stone, maybe a business major who takes my class, or a kid thought it would be fun for an elected. Look for them anywhere and everywhere. We are not as a dairy-rich state as some others that surround us, but we are in a very agoriented state. So sometimes the kid who loves to judge may be judging general livestock. And you can pull that interest. Oh, I'm done with general livestock, but I still want to judge. They they love the challenge and the passion of it. And then it comes from the kid who is born and raised on the farm and they know it all. Well, that's another side of attitude that's very interesting to work with. We take kids and hope that they choose IS8 because then's where you really feel the connection with the kids when they move out of the 4-H realm. You don't always know what they're going to do. They may want to become a teacher, so they're not in your field of study in animal science. Some want to be a radiologist or they go the two-year route first, and maybe they come in from all places. They can be steeped in family orientation or they can come simply out of nowhere. And that's the excitement of it. And they each can build and learn. So we look for the kids everywhere. And we start with, we hope, a good base, you know, maybe not as large as what Brian is talking about in his area, but we start from that base and then we start to develop and make choices and see schedules. And the biggest thing about students nowadays is I have four of my kids that are in out-of-state internships. And so we've had to relegate to Zoom and let's do this class and then we talk about it. And we have found those phones to be really great with videos and YouTube. And then I can press mine on record and give them an automatic response to what I heard, and you better go back, do it over. So we are really relying on that across the states because we're seeing the world change and the world is getting smaller, and it's drawing our kids and those kinds of avocations and the learning experiences. But they know when they're dairy judged, not everything happens within the classroom. They realize it's an extension. And this is my favorite quote about dairy judging. It's not just like going to the bank and making a deposit. Dairy judging is an investment, it permeates every step of your life, whether it was your life, and then you personify it and give it a new dimension and then take it to public speaking level. That's so critical in today. And Madison will attest to that. You have to be able to communicate. And if you don't think you need communication, don't become a parent, because eventually they become teenagers. And that's really a pretty good testing point for most parents when they turn into uh teenagers. It's about uh the system or the process that leads you to be able to explain yourself and justify what you are doing in a concise amount of time and sometimes on a very, very limited time frame. We'd like to think we have choices. I mean, may maybe it's a long time choice to find a mate in life. You only get 12 to 15 minutes to make a choice on forecasts. So you have to be able to rely on some sense of skill. And that skill is about that's the level of Celine Dion building out a great tune, or the greatest sports player in the world being able to do something skilled. It's on that level. That that much, but I do care about dairy judging kids and the magic that happens.

SPEAKER_06 25:48

From both of you, it's funny, Madison. I'm on retainer from their fellow judges, coaching teams, and they're trying to get as much information out of them about their success as we can for the other teams, Madison. So I'd say I nailed it for them, didn't I? So, Madison, you're coming from this at a little different perspective. First of all, they've talked about Brian's from a dairy-rich state, Bonnie is from an agriculture-rich state. You're working in New Mexico. Tell us what impact you're finding and how all this connects to your business of education in New Mexico.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

Yeah, absolutely. So it's definitely been a shift for me because coming from where I'm from in Ontario, it's basically you can throw a stone in either direction and you're probably going to hit a dairy farm somewhere in there. And so a very dairy-rich area, which is where I grew up. Definitely whenever I went to Kentucky, that was my first shift where suddenly that that wasn't as prevalent and that environment wasn't as interspersed all around me, leading up to now where I'm at in New Mexico, which actually has a surprising number of dairy farms. That was something that I didn't really realize about the state. But it's actually one of the national leaders in like cheese production. There's uh quite a few dairy farms that are maybe not necessarily in Las Cruces area. We have a couple, but definitely once you get up into like Clovis, New Mexico, which is where I was last week, actually also doing another dairy camp-ish type thing. But anyway, lots of dairy farms actually out in that area of the of the state. I would say that obviously not on the same level as like a Wisconsin or even an Ohio as far as accessibility in particular. But what I would say for that, as far as, you know, just kind of how that impacts my work and how I'm able to interact with folks within the dairy industry, within the state, is kind of going back to this idea that Bonnie had talked about with relationships, uh, that I kind of want to touch on a little bit. Because for me, through my experience with these dairy judging competitions, one of the greatest things that I gained was access and networking with a lot of different people from all over the place. Whenever you go through these competitions, you're meeting kids who are from Illinois, from Ohio, from Wisconsin, California, all of these different states across the country. And for someone being from Ontario, Canada, this was really mind-blowing to me to expand my network in this way because these were just people that I wasn't going to run across, I guess, in my day-to-day life. And what I'll say about New Mexico is that, you know, I was actually, I was watching the live stream for the World Dairy Expo this uh this past year. And whenever they were talking about some of the animals that were being exhibited and going across the screen, they mentioned some folks who are actually from New Mexico who placed actually in the top 10 of that. And I immediately went out and I was like, okay, I need to find them. Um, and I need to go and uh chat with these kids because it was a pair of brothers, actually, young kids who were exhibiting uh this animal and doing really well. People are everywhere. All people who are invested and interested and passionate about dairy are everywhere, even in the most unexpected places. Bonnie even said how she's uh recruiting people from under rocks. And there's lots of rocks here in New Mexico, and so I figure that there's probably a lot of people that I can find here who have that interest and have that passion. One of the things that I've found about the youth in particular, the the youth who are interested in egg here in New Mexico and our dairy youth, these folks have so much grit. And there's just a type of like raw passion and determination, and they want to prove themselves, they want to elevate themselves on a different level. And it's really fun to work with people like that who maybe don't have access to the latest and greatest and don't have access to, you know, award-winning herds just down the road from them, but they care, and that care and passion is there. And when I'm looking at kids that I want to work with and uh people that I want to help and coach and train, I want the ones who are in it for the love of the game and the ones who are actually there because they are passionate, not just because they necessarily came from like a family legacy and it was expected of them to go down this path. So it's a lot of excitement. There's it's really fun to kind of find almost like the diamond in the rough and be able to play a small part in in developing them on their journey with this. So yeah, it's been really gratifying for me.

SPEAKER_06 30:14

Well, I think Madison, we're lucky to have you in the United States now because I'm envious of what happens in Canada. Your youth programs in the dairy business in Canada are tremendous. You know, all your all your shows and all your commitment and all your competitions from a showing standpoint or a judging standpoint, it's it's a huge commitment. And I I'm excited that you can transfer some of that knowledge and and energy because it Canada does have a tremendous program, don't they?

SPEAKER_03 30:42

Yeah, no, it's exceptional. I am so incredibly blessed to have been a byproduct of all of that youth programming. And it's kind of one of those things where you don't really realize it until you're gone from it, because it was, you know, it was just normal. It was what I did as a kid growing up. But definitely once I was a bit more removed from it, you you really come to appreciate how much investment is put in our youth, our dairy youth in particular. And so yeah, I'm I'm really blessed to have been, like I said, a byproduct of that. And I'm blessed now and and kind of feel like it's my my path at this point to to try and pay that forward as much as possible and give investment in the youth in whichever state that I'm living in at that time as much as I can to try and share, I guess, what I've learned and what I have benefited from to hopefully give that experience to them as best I can.

SPEAKER_06 31:32

And I think that leads to a couple different notes I've taken here. You know, your leadership to work with these young people, all three of you, is tremendous. You you are giving your time and you're giving your energy and your knowledge, but the kids are giving back a lot to you too. You know, one of my coolest podcasts I've ever done was one of the guys I interviewed said his mentors were kids. I thought that was really profound because that that really made me think we all talk about the 80 and 90-year-old people that were our mentors. You know, these guys talked about 20-year-olds being their mentors because they're teaching them how to be how to be better in their own world. So it's interesting. You've all you've all got that. But Brian, flipping back to you, a key word that I think everybody has used in this is relationships. And dairy cattle judging and relationships are really what forged your career ahead. So, aside from judging and aside from coaching at UW, tell me about relationships and how important they are to a professional like you in this business.

SPEAKER_07 32:36

You know, I think relationships are everything, right? You know, when we think about where we're at right now, we're kind of in that team environment throughout the industry, throughout the dairy industry. A lot of organizations are pushing that team, team kind of environment. When you think about judging team, you know, there's relationships within that team as well. So I think when you combine that, it's just such a nice life lesson. But as far as my relationships throughout the industry, you know, Madison and Bonnie kind of talked about starting in 4-H. You know, I kind of started in 4-H, Dr. Dave got me, 4-H theory judging, Dr. Dave got me to UW Madison. And through that and the relationships that I gained there and then at the Holsting Association, that really springboarded me to my other opportunities in my career. You know, when you you think about the the relationship you have with people, it's relationships I have with some of the students on the judging team. I've hired some of them, I've managed some of them, I've worked with some of them. It's one of those things where where I was inner, if you're ever looking for someone when I'm looking at resumes, dairy judging is something I always looked at because I think they're gonna have those those skill sets that they have.

SPEAKER_06 33:41

And I want to encourage young people to think about this. One thing, Brian, I think too many young people are afraid to do is go talk to Bonnie Ayers or to Madison or to you or myself about who we are and how we got there. It's interesting, all our paths are just the same, and I think all of us love to share that. So, you know, to finish your point, Brian, back to relationships and building who you are and who you're connected to, the people that'll share with you in this industry are better than any other industry.

SPEAKER_07 34:12

I'm a person who likes to ask a lot of questions. For those of you who know me, you you know that. And you know, one thing I think that's really helped my career is asking questions to the people that were successful in the industry, getting their thoughts, getting their their process there. And then when you ask questions, you know, you generally build that relationship. You build that friendship, that's a great opportunity. If you can find someone that's been successful, you want to follow that path. Don't be afraid to go up them and just start asking questions. You might develop a lifelong friendship and you get to see the people throughout the industry kind of like we're on this call. You know, that's really what it this comes back to. We're on this call because of relationships. And I think that's just something that can be so powerful.

SPEAKER_06 34:52

Well, Madison, I'll let I'll let you speak to that because your connection with Bonnie, that's it. I mean, you were a young kid that really, you know, had to earn your stripes to get there. And you did that through your connection with Bonnie. How hard was that? How hard was it to go talk to Bonnie Ayers?

SPEAKER_03 35:09

It was pretty easy because she came and found me first. And that's the mark of a good recruiter, right? No, I will say that, you know, Bonnie just being who she is, she's probably one of the easiest people in the world to talk to. So I don't know if she's the best example of that, but definitely it can be daunting whenever you are trying to go and approach some of these folks who have been really successful and have carved out like a really impressive legacy. There are so many people, like so many people that I look up to, just generally speaking, come from the dairy industry who are just incredible people, not just successful within the industry, but just successful as human beings and people that I would like to emulate myself afterwards. And, you know, they say sometimes don't meet your heroes for a reason, but most of the folks that I have taken the chance on to go up and approach and introduce myself to and try to actually invest and learn from, they have paid off in dividends. Like I'm so incredibly grateful for the mentorship and a lot of times genuine friendships that have developed from taking those chances. And so I highly encourage, uh kind of like Brian was saying, just to really take that time and ask the people who have been successful, whatever that success looks like, if it's in the dairy industry, if it's in personal life, if it's in business, whatever it is, the people that you view as successful and a success that you would like to emulate, take that risk and go and talk to them because yeah, it can blossom into some of the most important mentorship experiences that you've had and also develop into these really long-lasting and impactful relationships that that transcends just, you know, getting info on how to succeed in XYZ. Bonnie has been one of those people for me. Like I said, I was lucky enough that she came and found me afterwards and so kind of took the onus off of me a little bit. But I I was funny, I was talking to my a little bit before we had started recording this podcast, and I was like, man, I can chalk up so many different opportunities that I have received just to Bonnie, just to Bonnie alone, for keeping me plugged in, mentioning me, encouraging me to go after a certain opportunities. And she's just one person, and there's no other Bonnie for sure, but I do have other people who serve as mentors like Bonnie does. And so just kind of that interconnected web of influence and those relationships are just so important to me. And ultimately, whenever I look at whatever success that I've had, I am truly who I am because of the people who shaped me and the people who I have been blessed enough to have in my circle and have in my network. And so I think that that can be said for a lot of us. And yeah, just a lot of gratitude.

SPEAKER_06 37:54

Really, really great comments. And I think the shaping of who we are, Bonnie, you and I, as the Elder States people of this conversation have have done it. But Bonnie, you mentioned a couple of my mentors, Mr. Corr and Mr. Kavanaugh. How does Tim Abbott or Bonnie Ayers ever get to talk to? They're literally legendary giants of our industry, they became great friends and mentors. So, Bonnie, I'll let you back clean up on this question. Give our young people some advice. How did you get to know Mr. Corr and Mr. Kavanaugh?

SPEAKER_02 38:26

If you do nothing, nothing happens. In my life, I really haven't wanted to have it all, but I have really wanted to do it all. And I keep working on that notion. Like Madison is talking there, there are a lot of Bonnies out there in the world, Tim, and they're dairy-judging coaches. They look for the untapped potential, and then they go out and seek that kid and they tell him, You can do this. Most courage develops in fear. Nobody's just courageous on their own. They're scared to death. Well, you have to provide that comfort zone to step out of a comfort zone. Maybe that's what I do. I don't know. I find him, I talk to him, I wear him out. It's a joke around campus. Don't give her your phone number. Do not do that. She won't leave you alone. Pesty. I don't know whether that's it. Or just pesty because I know that I was just a little kid who milked very average Jersey cows with my daddy and loved it. It was my daddy's dream to one day meet Mr. Kavanaugh or Mr. Korr. And I remember the time when he did because he was attending a banquet with me as my daddy, and I was getting an award. And it was like I was able to make that connection for my daddy. But my daddy made the connection for me by his thought, word, and deed. It wasn't big and impressive, but it wasn't that that gave me the courage to talk to Mr. Kavanaugh, to his wife and know them, to talk to Mr. Corey and his wife too, and share the stories. And some of my fondest photos of life are being with them. But then again, you mentioned that about kids. Man, I'm inspired by so many kids and what they are going on to do. Let's let's face it, not everybody wins the contest. Not every kid gets a blue ribbon. Every kid gets an opportunity to shine, to do something they thought they could never do. That's the whole part about education. Is it's a struggle to learn. But if we rob you of the struggle, we haven't given you any of the grand feelings in life, the great feelings that come with it. I did this. I was able to stand. I I still remember a big kid saying, Bonnie, I can't give reasons. But he went to the contest and he gave five sets of reasons and he came through and said, Bonnie, I did it. It was just a small personal goal, but he did it. So we don't want to we want to judge on blue ribbon kids, but not blue ribbons. So that's what I'm always looking for, the unlocked potential. And a couple of them got away, and I'm still not very happy about it. And I remind them about it. And they know that too. And they're in my phone. So I can call them lots of times. What are you doing here? You didn't like this. And there's always a a joke about that. So or a kid who wouldn't come down from the two-year school to want to judge. I said, okay, come down or flunk. You get to judge. There's always the skin of cat in your logic, I guess. So I hope that touched on it. It's it's just my mentors who gave me the courage to be a part that connection, that relation. It was a connection first to a relationship. And it was to the day they were gone, and it is to this day.

SPEAKER_06 42:12

Great comments, as as I do these podcasts, I write notes of gems that come out of them. There are several gems there, Bonnie. You know, Brian, I do feel a little bit of a sense of maybe we're getting to the NIL kind of situation with dairy judging. Like you guys are gonna, you guys are gonna be like the football teams and basketball teams, you know, paying meet people to come and and doing that. The way Bonnie talks, you know, just fair warning to everybody listening, Bonnie is still competitive, isn't she, Brian? Did you catch that?

SPEAKER_07 42:42

She is very competitive. And but some of I mean, Madison too, but some of the things Bonnie said there are just incredible. I actually you talk about surrounding yourself with people you can learn from. I was taking notes and writing down some quotes that I can use from Bonnie's Bonnie's talk there. But yeah, she's very competitive. But yeah, you talk about the the NIL. Yeah, we're getting some competition in that, but when you think about what Bonnie just did and how she talked, and you know, if I'm a prospective student, I mean that's gonna resonate with me. You can feel her passion within you when she was talking there. And to me, that's like as a parent who has kids and a one that'll be going to college in a few years, I know they're in the hands of someone like that that's recruiting them and is gonna look out for them. I feel feel very happy about their decision.

SPEAKER_06 43:27

The one I wrote down, Brian, and this will I've got a little whiteboard that I write all this stuff down on, but Bonnie didn't necessarily want to have it all, but she wanted to do it all. I I wish you'd have said that to me 30 years ago, Bonnie, because I think I've got I've had it backwards at times.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Well, Tim, Tim, luckily I married a guy who pushed doing it all on me.

SPEAKER_06 43:51

Yeah, you married a guy that wants to do it all and have it all, so you're gonna toss off. Well, we've this has been a great discussion. I have got To be mindful of the clock because uh Madison's got young people to train, but I want to leave with one more area of questions. I want you to sell to our young people listening to this podcast while they're driving the tractor, they're washing their cows, I want you to sell the importance of dairy cattle judging. Why should you get on a team? Why should you push yourself to go speak in front of a group? Why should you go give reasons, even though it's not comfortable? And just a little side story, Bonnie. I had the pleasure of speaking at a funeral yesterday. And I as I'm standing there talking in front of a big crowd in an emotional setting, you know, I thought about my dairy cattle judging days, and people said, How did you do that? How could you get through that little talk at the funeral? And it's because of the skills that I learned in in judging, right? And so I think sometimes we forget how important it is. So, Madison, I'm gonna start with you. Now you only get three, and Bonnie, I want you to listen carefully. You're not a good rule follower. You get three, okay? Brian, by the time we get to you, there's gonna be nothing left. But those are the rules. You get three pieces that you can you can uh give them of of different skills you'll gain if you if you become a dairy cattle judge.

SPEAKER_03 45:16

Since I am kind of the ag communications rep, although I have always argued with Bonnie that we could have really used her in the agom world, she's she's got a lot of fantastic insights. But because of that, I'm gonna start out with the obvious, which is gonna be this idea of public speaking and just kind of oral communication in general. I think that communication is at the heart of everything that we do in agriculture for the most part. We are obviously there's a lot of technical aspects that go into um agriculture and dairy, but at the end of the day, we're really a people business. And a lot of those connections and relationships come from the way that we are able to present ourselves, communicate with people, all of those different things. And that transcends to pretty much every other career path that you are going to find. Even if you're looking at just doing a job interview to get a career started, it all comes down to this idea of oral communication and being able to really sell yourself, sell your ideas and defend why you speak and think the way that you do. And those are skills that are essential and developed within dairy judging. And so I think that for me, that's that's one of the things that has really shaped me to be a communicator. Hopefully, I do a half-decent job of it since I'm trying to make my career in it. But whenever I'm teaching my students about public speaking, I find myself thinking a lot of the times, I'm just like, man, you know, this is what dad always was telling me whenever he was uh teaching me how to craft my reasons about persuasive speaking, making sure that you are honest in your communication, but also selling it in a way. And so there's there's a lot to it that comes from that. I won't take credit for this idea because someone else really told me this and it really resonated with me. And I think about it a lot whenever I think about dairy judging and other things that I've done, is this idea of um seeking discomfort and making sure that you are trying at all times, whenever you get too comfortable, seek that discomfort because that's where the growth is going to happen. I think back, I definitely was someone who, whenever I started my dairy judging career, I wasn't necessarily nervous about reasons. There, there was some nerves there for sure, but I I like to talk. And so that was more my strength area. But it was sort of this idea of putting myself out there and being vulnerable that, like, this is my opinion and this is how I saw a class shake out. This is how I am viewing these cattle. And obviously, we all have our preferences, but in dairy judging, especially at the competition level, there is ultimately going to be a right or a wrong if you're being evaluated in that way. And so it was really nerve-wracking and uncomfortable to really have to kind of like stand on my own two feet, plant my those feet in the ground and say, like, this is my opinion and this is why. And so that discomfort really helped me to become more decisive, I would say, in all areas of my life. It helped me to become more confident in my own opinions and perspectives and be able to understand that, you know, even if somebody doesn't see it the same way as me, I feel confident enough that I can explain my reasoning behind this and explain where I am coming from to hopefully share some common ground and get them to come to that level of understanding with where I'm coming from with this. So I would say that that is that's kind of my second point, is it's kind of contained discomfort. It's there's safety in there for sure, but it's still an uncomfortable experience sometimes that is gonna allow that growth to happen because I think that that's really where we do grow and develop, is whenever we are challenged and uncomfortable. And then not to sound like a broken record, but I think that those relationships piece is going to be the other thing that I will say for dairy judging. I've developed so many, so many impactful relationships from my time going to these different competitions. I had my stint whenever I was at Ohio State, where I was kind of an assistant coach for the dairy judging team working alongside Bonnie. And those have been not only just some of the most fulfilling relationships and friendships that I'm able to maintain to this day, but also just the learning that can happen from interacting with these people, from interacting with people who maybe have different different ideas and thoughts from you and get getting to learn why they see things the way that they do, why they do things the way that they do. Bonnie, let's go to you. And remember, I'm in charge of this.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

Um, number one, never miss an opportunity. I hate that when kids say to me, Well, am I gonna miss too much? Yes! You're gonna miss the opportunity. That's the big one. Embrace change, but challenge it at the same time. Because we all know what happened to the dinosaurs. Don't be afraid to listen and evaluate it before you speak.

SPEAKER_06 50:06

That was clear and concise and really good. Bonnie, we'll come back to you again. But uh Brian, since there's still some things that you can say, I didn't I thought these ladies wouldn't leave anything for you. I was feeling terrible, but the the floor is yours.

SPEAKER_07 50:23

I guess one thing I'll I kind of talk to the kids. So it's kind of neat. As Bonnie was talking there, I was kind of peeking. So uh we do a slideshow every year for our Badger Dairy Club banquet, and there's a portion where we can talk about the judging team. We go through the past year and kind of do the highlights and the strong points, and I always have a slide at the end, you know, because those are the next you have a lot of freshmen there trying to, you know, sell the kids to come out for dairy judging the next year. So I was peeking at that. But one thing I don't have on there that I've been thinking about is we're gonna work a lot in teams. And if you're even if you go back to a dairy farm or if you're you're farming with your family, you're farming with partnerships, you're sales partnerships, business partnerships in general, you know, a lot of what you're gonna do is team aspect and team success, but also figuring out how to celebrate individual success within a team, I think is a big aspect of it. You know, when you think about a dairy judging team, it's got usually generally three to four people through university, and those four are gonna someone's gonna do the best, someone's gonna do the worst, and your team's gonna place where they are. Really kind of figuring out how to work together as a team, encourage the other teammates to get better, but also to celebrate the success of the team, but also the individual success in that team. That can be challenging at times. You know, at times in life you have a team where a couple people are doing a lot better than others, and there might be some animosity or a little bit of jealousy. And it's really about that camaraderie. I think that's a great lesson. Okay, we're not competing against each other, we're working with each other to get better, to better ourselves, to better the team. So I think that's always a big aspect uh that I try to sell. And the other thing I really look at, I know when I went to UW Madison, I hadn't been out of the state a whole lot other for than for some junior hosting conventions and FFA trips. I got to travel to a lot of other places, a lot of parts of the country that I had not done yet. And I think that's that's a neat part of it too. So there's contests or, you know, there's some out in Utah. We unfortunately don't go to those contests, but I know some schools do. You know, there's contests in Texas, there are contests in Kentucky, there's contests in Harrisburg, there's a contest in Massachusetts. So it's an opportunity to travel quite a bit. And I know for some of our dairy judging members, the first time they ever were on a plane was that trip to Harrisburg for the All-American contest. So I think that's a pretty neat aspect as well. And then as I go into the third point that I use a lot for our area is that hasn't been talked about a lot yet, is you get to go on great farms and see great cows, and through that you get to see meet great people. You know, when think about some of these places, you might not go to some of these dairies and these farms and see these great cows if you weren't there for a judging practice. You might talk about it, but it's just another opportunity to go there. So I think those are the three that when we kind of talk through that hadn't kind of been talked about yet, that I'll touch on.

SPEAKER_06 53:14

There's been some reflections here that count. Things like never missing an opportunity, Bonnie, and Brian, the the importance of teamwork, whether you're at a dairy or you're at a big company or you're in a marriage, right? Those are all things that this teaches teaches you. And Madison, your comments on discomfort, I think I think we're all afraid to talk about that a little bit because none of us like it. But geez, don't we grow when we're uncomfortable? I know Dave Parker would agree, the producer of this series. When I started this, you know, I followed Joel Hastings, who is a silver-tongued devil and made very few blunders. And uh I was pretty uncomfortable to start. And it's it's fun to break that discomfort. So this has been fantastic. I think our listeners will have a couple episodes to use. This will this will take more than one load of manure to the field to get through. But uh one final comment as we go, and I appreciate having you on. Bonnie, let's start with you.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

It was kind of like when Brian was talking about coaching the team, not just the individual, but the team. And I can say that we do a lot more important coaching post-contest, not before the contest, because then it is about the relationships, about the the joy you share for the person who wins and you thought you might, or the sadness that one feels for doing dismally poor, and you have so many highs and lows. There's a lot of coaching that is done that is necessary and needed when you walk away from a contest, and that is very important to set the stage with the group and make comments and make sure you continue to build unity among the kids. All the coaches who do this are keenly aware of that.

SPEAKER_06 55:15

Not really, and and really, Brian, it doesn't or Madison either one. What Bonnie says, you you talk about that as a team for a judging team, but throw that out the window. You're gonna be on a judging team one year of your life or two years of your life. You're gonna work with a team every day the rest of your life. The success and the failure of individuals on your team drives the level of your team, right? And that then that's profound. Madison, any parting thoughts after our comment conversation today?

SPEAKER_03 55:44

So many, but I think one of the things that I really want to hit home on is this this idea of investing in the kids and trying to encourage them to seek out opportunities to become better at whatever they want to do in their lives and how dairy judging can really impact that because ultimately everything that I am and all of the opportunities that I have had over my life, life, not lives, have come from the fact that I was a kid that was invested in, right? And so I do just want to thank all of you for all of the work that you have done investing in so many different kids. Because I look at people like Bonnie and other mentors that I've had as people who have really changed my life and shaped my life into what it looks like now, who have encouraged me to look beyond what I maybe imagined for myself to what was actually possible versus what my narrow scope might have been if I had not met them and been influenced by them. So just a lot of gratitude. And I just want to thank all of you because I know that you've done a lot of work with many different kids over the years. And I don't know if you realize kind of the level of impact that you might have had on so many of these folks, but it is definitely appreciated. And so thank you for that.

SPEAKER_06 56:58

Nice comments. And Brian, I'm gonna owe you a beer when we're done this because I've let the ladies, you know, as I should. I've let the ladies kind of lead the way and you have to finish. But if if you'd give us your parting thoughts, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_07 57:11

Dairy judging is such a great opportunity. I would not be where I am today. I wouldn't have the opportunities I had in my professional career if it wasn't from dairy judging at a 4-H and collegiate level, and then building relationships that way. So I would just say it's something that I encourage everyone to do. It's a lot of fun. You build those relationships, and who knows, it could lead to you if you have the passion to maybe judging throughout the country or in another country someday, and just lead to so many opportunities maybe outside of your professional career as well. Also, I just would like to say, you know, when Bonnie had sent the message and called me about this, I thought this was just a great idea to put this together. So Bonnie, thank you for kind of starting that. Tim and David, thank you for helping with that as well in Madison. It's been a pleasure being on with you. And yeah, it's just I've been so appreciative to be on this show.

SPEAKER_06 58:02

Well, thank you. This has been this has been really good. You know, dairy business and the dairy voice, I'm looking at the logo right now and it says the future of dairy. And as we wrap up this podcast, that's what we've talked about today. We've given a lot of stories of the past and stories of what we've done and how we've all you know made our way through this business. But really, who we're talking to is the future. Whether you're 18 listening to this podcast or 62, our goal is to give you some thoughts that you can bring to your own operation, your own family, your own business, and give you some great communication and some great direction. So I really want to personally thank you three. Again, Bonnie, first with you. It was your idea. We sat down and you had the great brainstorm of kind of three different generations of people involved in this, and I think it worked well. And certainly, Brian, you know, we've known each other a long time and a lot of mutual respect, and it's really been great getting your perspective. But Madison, I I would say, like I did the day I heard you at that judging contest, you get a 50. Just your your energy, your commitment, and your enthusiasm are unmatched. And so I hope our listeners will take this issue or and this piece of information that you've gotten, take it forward and share it with young people. Get somebody to go to your FFA class and start dairy judging or livestock judging. Go to your 4-H club and start a judging team, or go meet with a college professor and see if we do dairy cattle judging at your university, and Madison, you're in New Mexico promoting it every day. Brian, you're in Wisconsin, and and Bonnie, you're in Ohio, and I here I sit in Vermont. All these things were touching a lot of people, and everybody has the exact same opportunity. So I thank you all for being on this. It's always a pleasure to have shows Showbox Sires host this fun series on the evolution of the great cow. This one focused more on people than cows, but we thank you for listening.